Absurd Minds

why are u hating on SMGs...

Why are they anti ecos? Who said this? Why should I not be able to use it against a rifler if I get in a up close position? Or even a medium position if I shoot it well? I just don't get why the smgs getting better is a problem?

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I think this is key. The M4 and AK used to be "everything weapons". With the new tagging plus the new viability of the guns, if I'm holding a short angle I don't want an M4 or an AK anymore. This really ups the meta. Do I buy a SMG to hold my short angle, or do I buy an M4 in case I have to rotate to the other site? Well, do I expect them to come to my site or the other one? Oh, and also, I bought an M4 last round and played passively, maybe I should buy an SMG this round and play the angle more aggressively. Having more viable weapons adds depth to the meta so it's not just a point-and-shoot game anymore.

I think with the SMGs more viable, they need to reduce the money bonus for kills with them. If you have a player on the team who is now your SMGer, they will constantly be up in their economy because they're buying cheaper weapons and getting money bonuses.

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I tried a little on my laptop as i am away right now but i really like the map changes, especially A site in Overpass. The one things i really don't like is the AWP change. It has completely fucked over my muscle memory for peeking anything. It has also destroyed almost all mid positions, like for example on Dust 2 the CT's are able to peek down mid first so when a T wants to try to AWP mid they either have to scope and slowly walk across and get shot or they can run out and try to quick scope and die because the awp isn't even accuract right as the weapon scopes. I feel like they are just trying to make the AWP purely a defensive weapon which i don't agree with. Now with the state it is in, its reduced to camping and only holding angles without the ability to even re-peek after a missed shot.

Now on the tec9 i feel like they completely missed the ball on the nerf. While i welcome the lower magazine and damage fall off (btw 24 bullets is still a fuck ton), it didn't fix the actual problem of the insane accuracy while moving. Valve just fell back on reducing magazine capacity like they did to the CZ instead of acually fixing the problem.

Also the m4a1 $100 increase in price is a half ass way of dealing with an issue. instead of increasing the damn price every time, how bout they ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. nerf the recoil on the A1 or buff the A4, even with they higher price i will still go back to the A1 just like i did last time they upped the price because it's just better.

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My problem with the update is that valve tried to solve a problem that doesn't exist in regards to the tec9. The reduced range damage and lower magazine kinda helps, the real problem is moving accuracy; and the damage drop off isn't huge either. Unless they patch it, I am still using the tec9 as a viable Eco weapon.

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Yeah I used the tec9 a bunch yesterday, and even though I could notice the nerf, it was still pretty good. I also agree with phobia, but I'm not an awper so take it with a grain of salt. It seems like the awp isn't viable for aggressive play styles anymore. However, maybe that's good - maybe people will have to choose scout for aggressive and awp for defensive. If they buffed the scout just a bit (and fixed jumping hit boxes, too, so it's not a bullshit gun) then the awp nerf might make perfect sense.

Also, I don't know how I feel about valve always trying to balance guns with their prices. They did that with the scout by lowering its price instead of buffing it, and they've done it work other weapons, too. I think it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what makes the weapons balanced in the meta game. They're balancing the weapons for the game but completely ignoring the meta game.

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The mp5 was a staple of competitive counter-strike in 1.6. If anything, GO is the bastard stepchild in the sense that there has never been a viable SMG in top-level play (I know the P90 is strong, but you don't see it in pro games that often). I don't see what bringing COD in to your point does, either. It's sensational BS that doesn't really add anything to your point. That's the kind of thing I expect to see on reddit, where trolls have nothing to add to the conversation so they just say "CS IS TURNING INTO COD. OMG. NOOBS."

Also, I agree with Amaroq. If the SMG's are as good as we think this early in the patch, they should definitely change the money per kill.

I think what they were trying to do with this update was to make t side more effective. A while back when the map data was posted in the CS:GO blog there was a prevelant CT side advantage. In noticing that AWPers would unnecessarily push, the Ts didn't have any efficient weapon except the pistols and rifles, and that CT was in favor, they made the AWP more of a defensive weapon than an offensive one, they made SMGs practical for once and they increased the M4A1-S by $100 which could mean a huge difference.

In total I see this update as a big step towards balancing the T and CT side gameplay so that most every map is not CT sided.

With that said, I do not like the AWP change. Felt too drastic. I also think the SMGs can be taken down a notch in accuracy because that is quite obscene getting picked in mid on inferno by an MP7 *cough* insanity *cough*.

If anything, they should have introduced the changes in smaller steps instead of them all at one time. The SMG change alone was enough to make T side rushes on a peticular sitsite practical.

It's going to be a lot harder to awp as a t now with these changes.

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The MP5 barely got used compared to Deagle+Armor. (Hell Deagle armor wasnt even that common compared to saving)
I would hardly call it a staple. I think most MP5 memories come not from pro gameplay but from pug and invite nostalgia.

Until a new update comes out to fix this mess of an update I might be out. This game is a shell of it's former self. If a hotfix isnt soon prepare to see multiple pro player retirements soon. It's sad to see.

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It is harder, but its not something that is impossible. Hell, I have only found the awp changes to be a small hindrance so far. I think you are right stickly, I think this is attempting to give the T's a little more help. I also, agree they should lower the smg money bonus. Its too high if the smgs are gonna be this viable. I was rolling in cash while just mp7 rushing. I love this update, I just hope they take it in the right direction.

they aren't going to change this. so if you are done with GO.......

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I'm so official, like a dealer with a pistol or referee with a whistle.

...What you're saying is just not true. Mp5 was common in gun rounds in the highest level of CS during 1.6. I don't know why you're saying it so matter of fact. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDUidFB ... e&t=10m05s

Look at the date (2001). This was before 1.6. Eastern European Buys became the standard around 2005 to 2012.

EDIT: Here is a VOD from ESWC 2010
https://youtu.be/ZowhAOHE4mE?t=17m24s

EDIT(2); I love the usp sound from 1.3 <3333

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... I just showed you a championship match from the CPL utilizing the mp5 and that's your response?

I'm not doubting it's usage in early CS history but as the metagame evolved and perfected itself (around 2005ish) the mp5 became less and less common. Deagle + Armor became the norm and even that was rare as most swedish and danish teams full saved for rifles and never forced up with an mp5. Hence the term eastern european buy.

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I think you could easily look at it the other way, though, too. Valve had a much more balanced weapon set before 1.6, which led to a richer meta game. Now, Valve is finally starting to realize that the lack of weapon viability that they implemented in 1.6 was not good for the game and are finally starting to rectify it.

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You have a huge misconception about what is and what isn't. You seem to think that if some pro teams do it, then that is the only viable solution EVER. You very often make statements like this. They are ridiculous. Pro does not genius make. Pro, does not meta knowledge make. Meta does not equal one thing and one thing only. That is why cs isn't like other games. You can say this is the way to do it all you want, and I'll show you 3 ways to do it differently that also work.

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I'm so official, like a dealer with a pistol or referee with a whistle.

Also, go back to the original point of this, does having a SMG as a viable weapon break the meta game? I think the answer is clearly no, but I'm open to any sort of EXAMPLES or EVIDENCE you can provide instead of adding nothing to the conversation with blanket statements and opinions.

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Team Pentagram(ESC), Na'Vi did Deagle+Armor
mTw, SK(2005 NiP), Fnatic did full save
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Jero please correct me if I'm wrong
Mind you I'm talking about 1.6 (2003-2012) not earlier or later
I don't think it was just "some teams" and as a result I have to respectfully disagree.
Of course CS is about multiple tactics. I'm not saying that this was the only solution but it is what the standard became for the teams I listed above.

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That is just my opinion and I apologize for exclaiming it as fact. I don't like the idea of spray weapons being this accurate and having this little recoil. It makes me want to run around and spray with the OP7 instead of trying to get headshots or good awp picks.Personally I feel like it takes the skill out of CS. This is just my opinion.

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