Absurd Minds

http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive ... to_change/

Thoughts?

Another thread complaining about complaining threads. /r/globaloffensive in a nutshell.

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I disagree, because my personal experience clearly shows me that rank is not at all accurate to individual skill. When I play with good people, I rank up. When I play with bad people, I rank down. If your first matches are with good people, you'll be placed in a high skill group (remember when jabber's rank was the top 1% of our clan?) and you will rank down very quickly by solo queuing because your inflated rank will cause your team to lose. People who queue with bad people will likewise get ranked low, but it's a lot harder to get your team to win because you're good than it is to get your team to lose because you're bad.

If you literally only solo queued, I would suggest your rank is an accurate representation of your skill. But if you ever queue with others, your rank will be a representation of the median of your respective skills (weighted by the proportion of solo queues to group queues).

I think there is legitimacy to complaining about the rank system because of the weight it gives to team performance over individual performance. It makes getting stuck at an inaccurate rank an actual, verifiable reality. I think posts like this on reddit stem from ignorance of the rank system, serve no valuable purpose, and stifle legitimate discussion.

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I think this is the meat of the argument Gandhi (OP) was making and I agree with it

I think the people you play with matter to fairly large extent but aren't the entire reason. I am not sure how often low level players ACTUALLY end up being much better than low level. I think some people do get stuck at weird places because they consistently play with people that are either much better or much worse then them, but I don't know if that is even close to the majority. Or if its even a significant portion of the community. I would just have to see more research because all I have is anecdotal evidence.

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I'm so official, like a dealer with a pistol or referee with a whistle.

I don't understand. You just reposted your point instead of contributing to the discussion. Am I missing something?

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To directly respond to Anubis' Post, I feel that

Skill = Knowledge + Execution + Hardware + Teammates' Skill

So while a factor of your skill is your teammates' I feel as though your personal aim, positioning, hardware, and map awareness and game sense contributes far more than just "My teammates are bad so I am bad OR my teammates are good so I am good"

Of course If you are getting carried by Eagles+ You Will Do better
And Of Course If You have to carry silvers you will do worse.

But to say that your rank is mostly based on your teammates skill I think is not true.
EDIT: Fixed Grammar

I just don't think it's appropriate to say part of my skill is their skill. I can't control what they do in a game, and at some point they're too bad to allow me an opportunity to use my skills.

I agree that all of those other things contribute to my skill, but the largest weight of your elo is whether or not you won. You rank is mostly based on if you win or lose, not in personal performance or teammate performance.

I lost 10 matches in a row with 30-50 frags (not points - frags) and went from dmg to Nova 4, because I was queuing with silvers and I "shouldn't" lose to nova 4's or whatever the other team was. Why was I losing if I did so well? Because my other 4 teammates had less than 10 kills between then every single match. That's simply not enough team frags to win a match. I don't think it was an appropriate representation of my skill to factor in how poorly my teammates did.

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I agree, if your teammates are too poor to be able to even offer a benefit then its a handicap. If you routinely play with friends that are varied in rank and are not matchmaking with a normal group of similar skilled people I think it will effect you quite a bit.

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I'm so official, like a dealer with a pistol or referee with a whistle.

Well my first rank was MGE and we had a number of DMGs in the clan. I thought it was odd at first but you told me your initial rank was MGE also and that it wasn't that uncommon. From my somewhat limited experience, I feel like there is about a 2 rank difference in skill between players who queue regularly with similar ranks and those who primarily just solo queu. For example, someone who is ranked MGE while usually queuing with MGEs would probably be a MG1 while primarily solo queuing.
The ranking system definitely needs improving and I think the thread author who makes a blanket claim about if you're a silver, you belong in silver is only partially true. If you are MGE and solo-queuing and often facing teams whose majority of players are lower rank, you are going to have a very hard time ranking up or even maintaining rank because you will lose more elo points when your team loses and win less elo points when your team wins. This is not at all uncommon as there is a larger player population below MGE. Conversely, if you are solo-queuing as MGE and the majority of players on the opposing team are higher ranked (much less likely due to player percentages), you will lose less elo points when your team loses and win much more when your team wins. So at the MGE - DMG levels you are forced to queue with friends/similar ranks in order to rank up or even to maintain rank (unless you are so good that you can literally carry your team consistently to get the win no matter how poorly your team plays). Again, the benefit of queuing with similar ranks is primarily to ensure you don't get matched against players of lower ranks which have a more devastating affect on your rank when you lose. This all is perfectly logical and explains why people get "sucked down" and have a hard time climbing up when they aren't regularly queuing with similar or better ranks.
MM ranks will be messed up until they find a way to factor in and properly weight individual performance (regardless of team win/loss) while still ensuring that team-play and objective basics are not violated or neglected.

I believe at the time only karma, maybe phobia, and mutiny had a rank equal or above yours. I know me, kami, and serial had already downranked, and I don't think there was anybody else in the clan who has ever been at that rank.

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travis as well

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I'm so official, like a dealer with a pistol or referee with a whistle.

I'm pretty sure that Karma, Phobia, Insanity, Mutiny and Travis were all DMGs and you and Serial were both MGEs when I got my initial rank.
I played a few unranked matches solo-queuing and the rest mostly with the CEVO team, which was mainly MGE-DMG ranks. I probably played about 16 matches (won 10, lost 6) before getting a rank, so it makes sense (based on the way the system works) that my initial rank would be MGE-DMG.

Definitely not. I don't know what Travis's rank was, but I'm positive both serial and I had already dropped below MGE and I am pretty sure inanity was still MGE.

Either way, you were ranked to a top tier rank compared to others in the clan when there is a very large skill difference between, for example, Travis (who is frequently ranked at MGE) and you. This is the point I am attempting to make. I'm sorry if my incorrect memory and percentages threw you if and I hope I have clarified the point I was initially trying to make. I'm not trying to criticize anybody or disparage anybody or anything like that - I'm just pointing out that anybody who is in our clan can easily see that a matchmaking rank is not an accurate representation of skill.

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no I think one or two of those people were also double AK.

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I'm so official, like a dealer with a pistol or referee with a whistle.

This is not correct. The only rank I have EVER seen Serial have all the times I have played with him is MGE (double AK) and the only rank I have ever seen Insanity have is DMG. I was ranked in the same 2 skill groups (DMG & MGE) as the people I was playing with at the time, which again, makes sense given how the ranking system is structured. I mean, we are both of the same opinion.... that the ranking system needs to be improved. But as I explained in my previous post above about how the elo system is used, it makes perfect sense that I was given the rank that I was. I am not arguing that my actual skill level is MGE (whatever that may be) but simply that my initial assigned rank was appropriate given the relevant factors and the way the system is designed.

Correction, I think I recall Insanity having something below DMG early on but the vast majority he was DMG when I played with him.

Serial - always MGE
Mutiny - always DMG
Travis - back and forth DMG/MGE
Phobia - vast majority DMG
Karma - vast majority DMG with brief dip into MGE

...

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I feel that people forget that there are ranks higher than DMG. It was like a culture shock a few days ago when I ran into a SMFC. Some people are really good at the game and play at the highest level. Just think of how well you play and imagine that x10. I know this is a random post but I feel that everyone gets trapped in their bubble w/o realizing that there are players that are MUCH BETTER than you and also Much worse than you. Just some perspective.

Just looking at this image should let you know where you are in CS GO. (Approximately)


Once again I am being captain obvious but sometimes I really do forget that I am worse than a lot of players and that I would also kick the crap out of a lot players. I dunno. Food For Thought, I suppose.

I forget that there is even a MG2. I keep thinking it goes from MG to MGE because of the icons. Then again, I'm constantly ranking up and down from Nova 3 and Nova Master.

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i forgot to put a signature when i first joined

so this is my signature now